Brazil: growing the left from the grassroots up

Bert de Belder talks to Brazilian rural workers’ activist JOAO PEDRO STEDILE on the tactics deployed by the urban-rural coalition around Lula won victory and what challenges lay ahead

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BERT DE BELDER (BDB): First of all, this great victory of Lula and the Brazilian people: how did it resonate in Brazil, among the grassroots, among workers, peasants, women and indigenous peoples? What can the joy and satisfaction they feel mean for their confidence, power, creativity and willingness to fight and win?

Joao Pedro Stedile (JPS): Lula’s electoral victory was, in fact, a political victory of the entire Brazilian people, who mobilised in massive numbers in the second round to defeat the far right. The way we won brought immense joy and confidence to the whole people, and especially to the most organised sectors of the working class and the left. And, above all, it was also a victory of youth, who mobilised, took to the streets and, in a certain way, were the vanguard of the mass response.

BDB: With a few weeks’ hindsight, what can we now say about the main factors and causes of Lula’s victory: political, organisational and communication factors? With special emphasis on the battle and the turnaround on social networks; on the mobilisation of youth and students; and on face-to-face mobilisation, door to door (“street and telephone”)?

JPS: Well, there are many analyses and evaluations being made by various sectors of the class. We in the MST (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra/Landless Workers’ Movement) have assessed that the turnaround in the second round was due to the sum of several complementary factors. We cannot say that only one of them was decisive. It was the sum of them all.

The organised sectors of youth and the peasant militants of popular movements took to the streets because they woke up to the threat of a fascist government. The masses were afraid of losing their rights and mobilised. The letters that Lula wrote to various sectors, such as Catholics, Evangelicals, Afro-Brazilian terreiro [religious] communities and women. There was the work on social networks by various influencers and the active participation of artists and musicians, who took the initiative and helped with agitation and propaganda against Bolsonaro and in favour of Lula.

BDB: Which main themes and concrete actions in his first months in office will allow Lula to build and deliver concrete progress for the working class and the popular masses?

JPS: Lula knows that it was the mobilised people who gave him victory and that this creates commitments now, in the way he governs, and in guaranteeing concrete measures that can immediately improve conditions, while other measures should orient the country toward the debate on a development project.

BDB Lula announced that he wants to fundamentally change the way of governing, with greater and more direct popular participation, using new technologies: what does he mean by this and how would this be implemented?

He felt that, to have a successful government, he will depend on organised sectors and not only on party agreements. So I think there is openness for us to debate with Lula over the creation of new mechanisms of popular participation in government decisions, using plebiscites, debates, referendums, popular consultations; in short, we need to have broadest forms of stimulating debate and the people’s participation in government decisions.

BDB: Lula states that he is the president of all Brazilians, that he seeks inclusion and dialogue with all sectors of society. In your opinion, to what extent are these necessary measures and to what extent is there a risk of opportunism? How far should concessions go and what are the limits that must not be exceeded?

Also taking into account the complex Brazilian political system — presidential and federal, yet with significant autonomy and powers at the state level (governors, state legislatures) and even municipal level — how can one avoid being challenged, obstructed and sabotaged by right-wing majorities at these levels?

JPS: Well, we must always separate statements, rhetoric and isolated opinions. The concrete fact is that the way we won the elections generated a new correlation of forces in society, which went beyond the constraints of parliament.

Therefore, I think Lula has only one way out: to govern with the masses. And, for that, he needs to set an example, propose concrete measures that benefit the people and, at the same time, whenever necessary, stimulate mass mobilisation. And we, from the movements and organisations of the left, have the challenge of transforming the energy that came from the streets during the campaign into organisational processes, and into an accumulation of forces among the masses.

BDB: What should we expect, fear, and prepare for in relation to Bolsonarism and its manoeuvres, both internally in Brazil’s political and social life and externally? With the forces of Trump and Rubio having suffered a defeat, and with Flavio announcing that he will lead the opposition from Miami, how do you expect this to develop? What are the international connections of the far right and fascist forces preparing, and how seriously should we take these threats?

First, it is clear and publicly known that the imperialist far right in the United States moves according to various international articulations. They created the so-called Shield of the Americas, which brings together far-right governments to support the United States’ repressive measures.

On the other hand, Rubio and other figures continue to co-ordinate with the Latin American far right to consolidate further political and ideological articulations in Latin America, especially by financing right-wingers and interfering in electoral processes. Now, here in Brazil, the elections changed the correlation of forces.

Bolsonaro’s flight to the US was political suicide, even though he feared being arrested here in connection with the various corruption cases he is facing. The Brazilian far right has returned to normal. It has no leader capable of keeping it together and its electoral weight has declined once again.

In its place, a more civilised right takes over, represented by the current governor of Sao Paulo and reserve captain of the army, Tarcisio de Freitas. He has already launched himself as president for 2030; he has the capacity to unite other groups to his right and more toward the centre right. That is, now the main enemy will be Tarcisio and his project. The Bolsonarists’ time has passed, and they will spend the rest of their lives in Miami or in prison.

BDB: What is the deeper meaning of Brazil’s victory for the Latin American continent, for the correlation of forces in the region, for the struggle against US imperialism’s National Security Strategy and its pursuit of total hegemony over the entire Western Hemisphere with the so-called Donroe Doctrine?

JPS: Our victory was a defeat for US imperialism, for its companies and for the policy of the Trump and Netanyahu governments. We defeated the Donroe Doctrine. The campaign helped us create an anti-imperialist sentiment and a defence of national sovereignty among the Brazilian population. And we curbed the possibility of their expansion in Latin America. Now we can articulate with Mexico, Uruguay, Venezuela and Cuba and confront the articulations of the far right.

We also defeated the paranoia that existed on the left that the powerful computers of Meta, of the big techs, were invincible, since they had caused our defeat in Peru, Colombia and Honduras. Now we have proven that we can also defeat them, as long as we connect with the population, talk and meet with the working class. And, of course, dispute all possible spaces on social networks, but without leaving the streets.

We feel that our victory encouraged popular movements and left-wing parties throughout Latin America, and this can lead to improving the mood to defeat Milei and other rightwingers in the next elections. We hope that street mobilisations in Europe continue and also give encouragement to all social struggles and peoples in struggle.

BDB: What could be the role of Lula and Brazil in the volatile and challenging Latin American/Caribbean and world situation? How should we assess appeals to multilateralism, multipolarity, new international institutions or renewed respect for existing ones?

JPS: Lula remains a political reference point in Latin America. And he has his commitments to multilateralism, he has the political will to expand partnerships with China. But I think his greatest contribution can be in Brics, strengthening it, and continuing to insist on democratising the UN.

BDB: The same applies to the financial and monetary situation and challenges. What are the possibilities for greater de-dollarisation, for more space for currencies not controlled by central banks dominated by the dollar and the euro?

JPS: The economic policy of the next Lula government will be challenging, because it faces the economic power of the bourgeoisie, financial capital and transnational companies. The biggest challenge will be how to control the basic interest rate, co-ordinated by the Central Bank, which here is called the Selic rate, and determines all other interest rates in the economy. And today it is stratospheric, around 14 per cent per year. The interest rate consumes 40 per cent of the entire federal budget. And there will be the challenge, to be faced by broadening the debate with the working class, which is the construction of a country project that resumes re-industrialisation, heavy investment in science and technology, so as to give youth hope for work and income.

BDB: What kind of concrete international solidarity initiatives should we develop and support?

JPS: We on the left must be supportive by principle. Only solidarity will save humanity, as a principle of life. And we need to be supportive within the class, in our society and also internationally with all peoples who struggle and confront imperialism, colonialism and all types of exploitation and discrimination. I hope that European movements and the left will be more supportive of the people of Palestine, of migrants from Africa, of the peoples of the Sahel, of Western Sahara and, here, in Latin America, of the Cuban and Venezuelan people.

Joao Pedro Stedile is a leader of the Brazilian Landless Workers’ Movement (MST). Bert de Belder is head of the international relations department of the Workers’ Party of Belgium.

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