“Icarus becomes a subversive figure”

In a few days you will be going on tour with your new album in Europe. What are your expectations based on your previous experiences here?

Patrick Gloeckle (PG): When I think about our experiences so far, it was like a heavy metal dream come true. We had great shows, we played the Keep It True festival, toured with Visigoth and Sanhedrin - great bands and great people. I think all the shows we played were sold out. So the expectation this time is to experience this heavy metal dream again and bring the music to the people. Our new album has been released since our last stay in Germany or Europe. We are particularly excited and looking forward to presenting this new music.

»I never liked the traditional message of the Icarus myth: Don't fly too low, don't fly too high, do what your father tells you and everything will be okay. I never liked this teaching. That's why I wanted to change it.« Matt Papai 

For me, you are currently one of the best examples of how the heavy metal scene can sustain a band even without much promotion - just through enthusiastic fans and of course your music. Would you share this assessment?

PG: Yes, I think so. We don't have a master plan on how to conquer the heavy metal world. We just write songs that we put a lot of heart into - and people hear that. We've been doing this for about five years now, since our first EP "Colossus". And it's growing slowly but steadily, and that feels good. We basically did everything ourselves: we organized this entire tour, booked all the shows ourselves, without a concert agent or anything. It's a lot of work, but it's something you take pride in and make sure you're in full control.

Your new album is a concept album. What kind of story does it tell?

Matt Papai (MP): Actually, we haven't made an album yet that wasn't a concept album. When writing “Fires on the Mountainside” as well as the other records, my background in classical studies, i.e. archeology as well as Roman and Greek history, greatly influenced me. Nikos Kazantzakis' book about the fall of Knossos ("In the Palace of Knossos"; editor's note) was also a great inspiration. Icarus is actually just a minor character in it, appearing perhaps on two or three pages. In his book, Kazantzakis tells its story – or rather the myth – in his own way. And at some point I thought to myself, this is a really good idea. I never liked the traditional message of the Icarus myth: Don't fly too low, don't fly too high, do what your father tells you and everything will be okay. I never liked this teaching. That's why I wanted to change it.

Why did you choose to sing about the past while keeping the present in mind?

MP: I grew up with power metal. I love songs about “Lord of the Rings”, about dragons or…

»Our style is a way to behave subversively towards the mainstream and the culture industry.« Matt Papai

MP: Yes, all kinds of ways to break chains! (Both laugh) Or take Virgin Steele, one of my favorite bands, who are just completely stuck in ancient times and just sing about it. For me, what I do wouldn't have much meaning if I just wrote about things like that. I have to sing about things that we encounter every day, but I look at them through the lens of antiquity, through that of a time that was 2,000 years ago or more - but since then not much seems to have changed. I wanted to explore the fact that inequality has existed at all times; Hierarchies among people. And Icarus was a great myth for me to show: You can actually fly as high as you want - but keep an eye on what's going on around you and make sure you're helping others.

With Fer de Lance, the term “Epic Metal” goes beyond the musical style; the reference to epic poetry is obvious. In the “Dialectics of Enlightenment,” the philosophers Theodor W. Adorno and Max Horkheimer argue that the classical epic already represents a criticism of mythology. Matt, as Fer de Lance's main lyricist, do you find yourself thinking about this?

MP: I am a big fan of Horkheimer and Adorno. In that respect: yes. I think our style is a way to be subversive to the mainstream and the culture industry. And I love turning mythology – understood as a kind of power construct – on its head. So Icarus becomes a subversive figure and does not follow his mythological career. It follows the path I think this story should have taken. The same can be said about our previous album "The Hyperborean", in which I brush against the grain of the entire idea of ​​Hyperborea (an ancient Greek myth, a paradise land in the north; editor's note). Only with “Colossus” I wasn’t subversive at all. I just wrote a bunch of songs.

»The Colossus of Rhodes stands for strength and for guiding ships safely into the harbor. In contrast, there is the idea of ​​a literal colossus and at the same time a person who is simply trying to survive everyday life.« Matt Papai

Isn't the title track "Colossus" a very personal song - especially in contrast to the classic image of the Colossus of Rhodes? The song is about the desire not to be too affected by individual suffering, but also about not being too affected by what is happening in the world. At the same time, of course, you know that this will never work. The way these lines are phrased already expresses a lot of pain - precisely through the desire to make it disappear. So your “Colossus” is very fragile.

MP: You've probably read Colossus more closely or paid more attention to it than pretty much anyone else. What you described is actually the actual meaning of the song. But so far no one has really put two and two together and worked it out. Still, I don't think I associate anything subversive with it. Well, maybe, now that I think about it. The Colossus of Rhodes stands for strength and for guiding ships safely into the harbor. In contrast, there is the idea of ​​a literal colossus and at the same time a person who is simply trying to survive everyday life. Maybe this is actually something subversive.

To this day it is my favorite Fer de Lance song.

PG: Mine too. When Matt sent me the demo version of “Colossus,” that was the exact song that made me say: Okay, we have to start a new band. I was completely fascinated by this piece and found it incredibly impressive that a heavy metal song based on a single drum beat could work. That was a pretty big learning moment for me too.

Among your musical influences there are also references to Rembetiko, a Greek musical style. It was particularly influenced by Greeks who were expelled from Turkey as part of the population exchange in 1923. What made you choose this in particular?

MP: This is music that I listen to regularly because of my parents' influence. And in general: It's a good life to listen to Rembetiko every now and then and drink an ouzo with it. I'm familiar with the history of rembetiko as music of migration, but I didn't think much about it when writing the song. I just wanted to write something in a heavy metal style that ties in with music I listen to in my everyday life. So I wrote something in the time signature of Rembetiko. And then our drummer Scud added a more Latin American beat. In a world that is drifting further and further apart and in which borders and walls are being erected, it just seemed perfect for this album: a Greek style of music that comes from Turkey or from Greek-speaking people in Turkey, mixed with a Latin American rhythm.

Your texts are also a lot about walls and borders that keep the poor out and protect the prosperity of the rich, who only see enemies outside these borders.

MP: Yes, and the wall doesn't even have to be a physical one. It can also be a wall in the mind or consist of denying people entry into a country. There are examples of this all over the world. In the United States, this is probably the most important issue of all at the moment. We wrote the song “Death Thrives (Where Walls Divide)” in response to certain events. But it is current politics in the US generally that fuels our need to scream lyrics into a microphone. I am very aware that we are becoming more and more distant from one another socially, that after two world wars we are becoming more nationalistic again, instead of putting an end to this idea. It's moments like these when I think: I have to write something now.

One line in the song goes: “Denying the starving guest always leads to war.” Is this an appeal for basic humanity in the face of the real war against refugees that we are currently experiencing in Europe and the USA?

MP: That was exactly the idea. I was just completely exhausted, tired and angry about the things I see in Europe, in my own country, in the Middle East – about what I see everywhere. And here I come back to the image of the “starving guest”. There is no greater crime, no greater sin in this world than not giving food to a starving person. And if these people are your guests, then that makes it doubly bad.