Football fan on Lost Grounds: “You can’t get something like that recreated artificially”

taz: Stadiums like this create memories for many generations, then they are suddenly abandoned by the club. How does society deal with a place like this?

taz: Do you know of a positive example in Germany?

taz: Residential buildings like those on Bökelberg are being built in several old stadiums in Europe, for example in Arsenal's listed Highbury Stadium. Most of them are luxury apartments for the extremely wealthy. Is this a solution or a new problem?

Höller: I'm skeptical about something like that. The new buildings cost a lot of money. The Art Deco façade on Arsenal's old stadium, which the concept allows to be preserved, is beautiful. But the people who used to sit there in the stands are not the ones who live there today.

taz: How could you design a place of remembrance so that it is also made for society at large?

taz: When ground hopping, fans go to as many games and stadiums as possible in different countries. This used to be a hobby of nerds. Through social media and sporting event tourism, the search for stadiums has changed dramatically.

Höller: I've been groundhopping since it came to Germany around 1990. I always travel alone. But I also notice that the hobby has spread significantly. Everyone used to do it just for fun. Today you wonder whether someone is just doing this for clicks.

Höller: That’s a legitimate question. But it is our freedom to be able to do whatever we want. I think you can only control it by increasing prices. I can't imagine groundhoppers voluntarily staying at home because of their climate footprint. There is already an outcry when prices rise: Oh, I can no longer fly 30 times a year, but only 20 times. I know someone who flies to Australia twice a quarter. He is admired by everyone for this.

taz: Those are crazy numbers. The frequent flying of groundhoppers and ultras is a blind spot in football, where it is mostly about the travel of players.